Pastor Bob's Blog- An Open Letter to Gay Christians...

I agree, and will address your falacy soon......

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101bite.asp

This study shows that change is possible, but not in all cases, when change can not be achieved, they are called, like all of us are, to live chaste lives.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9407fea1sb1.asp

I do not believe having homosexual thoughts is sin, when those thoughts are meditated on in the mind, that's where the line is crossed and sinful lust is acted out. Even still, how many here, myself included, heve confessed to some besetting sin in their lives, and still consider ourselves christian?

Both of you have valid points, but you are BOTH forgetting the growing act of maturity in the grace and knowledge of God. Not everyone is INSTANTLY transformed into the mature Christian that God intends for them to be - it's process that takes time and we are not the discerners of God's timing in individual growth.

Homosexual sin and fornication were problems back in Bible times, have been problems all through the centuries, and STILL cause problems with mankind. Thank God we will stand before Him, and not each other for our maturity!

Quote :

Sex was never really intended as a means of "sharing love and emotional bonding" {THough that is a good and positive thing}. Sex was intended as a means of populating the earth
and creating families...If sex did/does not result in creating
more humans, then sex is not really fulfilling its purpose...

Scripturally, I don't see this at all! If it was only for procreation, God would not have been as busy in the OT as He was closing various women's wombs. He also would not have told us married folks in the NT to abstain only for a period of prayer and then to come together again.

He knew exactly that He was creating these incredible desires for each other - that's why He called the marriage act becoming "one flesh". It is the physical joining of two souls/spirit. The spiritual side of sex is far more powerful than the physical side.

Why do you also think Song of Solomon was in the Bible? I don't think it had to do with procreation.

Can an alcoholic become a Christian? He gets saved and still he drinks?
Can a womanizer become a Christian.
I dont believe in the gay life style but I do believe that the truth of the gospel can set them free. Its not up to me to set them free. I can only share the gospel with them. Then it is up to God.
I just find it odd how we, as Christians stand in judgement over some groups, yet we give others a complete pass. There are very few instances in the word where it tells us to judge people, however there are very many places where it tells us to love them.

Big tink - I amnot advocating that one group of "sins" gets a free pass and another gets "blasted"....Not at ALL!! Sin is sin and must be dealt with....It is one thing to be saved and struggle with an addiction like alcohol and QUITE another to be in a sinful lifestyle and to simply accept it as this is how I am....

If the homosexual could not be changed or {homosexuality is genetic, then why would God condemn that as sin?

Son_of_Issachar wrote:

If the homosexual could not be changed or {homosexuality is genetic, then why would God condemn that as sin?

so are most sins. it's in our nature to be violent, to lust for power, to lust in general! all of them must be controlled, even if it's a huge sacrifice.

Quote :

Sin is sin and must be dealt with

How do you "Deal" with it? And who is to "Deal" with it? If a person accepts Christ they have the word of God. They can read it just as I can. If the Holy Spirit convicts them fine. But I am not going to do his job. My job is to love them, period.

I believe it is a disservice to Christ to call oneself a christian and openly live in sin be that gay, drunkard, womanizer, whatever. If you believe the bible and dont follow it....then you obviously dont believe the bible or care what it says.

The Changeling wrote:

Gays can indeed be christians, they are forbidden however from acting out homosexually. A great disservice has been done to homosexuals by evangelicals, they have been told God will make them "straight" if they submit to Him, this is rare if it ever happens at all.

Hi guys; long time no see. Lively discussion you have here.

1 Corinthians 10:13 "No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, that you may be able to endure it."

It seems to me that the above verse suggests at least two things:
(1) Temptation is something different from sin; temptation is common to man (on the basis of 1 Cor 10:13 I think Mark is correct: a person who is merely tempted to sin cannot for that reason alone be said not to be a Christian).
(2) No Christian is tempted beyond their ability to escape (this presupposition seems to be in direct conflict with any view that certain Christians are tempted beyond their ability to avoid major sinful actions). If we sin, whatever that sin may be, we are responsible for that sin (as Marcia pointed out, that may involve a struggle in some cases, but none will have as an excuse that they could not have prevailed).

A further point of agreement with Changeling: the Bible has no vocabulary of “sexual orientation”; this is a modern distinction entirely unknown to the ancient world pagan or Christian. E.g. Leviticus 20:13: “'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act…’” clearly refers to a detestable act, not a detestable temptation.

bigjtink wrote:

I just find it odd how we, as Christians stand in judgment over some groups, yet we give others a complete pass.

This is a superb point. Those who have committed adultery are not ostracized because that was their temptation, though they should be exhorted not to commit adultery any longer.

bigjtink wrote:

There are very few instances in the word where it tells us to judge people, however there are very many places where it tells us to love them.

We should qualify this. Roughly 40% of the NT is exhortation material: i.e. material (1) exhorting Christians to avoid or stop doing things that are wrong, or (2) to engage in doing things that are right. Exhortation, also called reproof, is a good thing –as long as we are reproving someone who is willing to listen:

Proverbs 9:8 “Do not reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you, reprove a wise man, and he will love you.”
Proverbs 10:17 “He is on the path of life who heeds instruction, But he who forsakes reproof goes astray.”
Proverbs 15:31-32 “He whose ear listens to the life-giving reproof will dwell among the wise. He who neglects discipline despises himself, but he who listens to reproof acquires understanding.

Reproof, something viewed positively in scripture, is something quite different from judgment, something viewed negatively in two passages of scripture. To say “this man is beyond God’s forgiveness,” or “I know this man is going to go to hell” are examples of definitive statements that are not actually reproving a person, but condemning them. This is an example of judgment; only God is the final judge who is capable of accurately doing this. On the other hand, to say “adultery is wrong” or "murder is wrong" is not to judge a person. It is to proclaim what the OT and NT proclaim about
an action. If it was wrong to say “adultery is wrong” the claim that it is wrong would not appear in the NT on the assumption that the moral teaching of the NT is not riddled with fundamental and major contradictions.

Tink has a excellent point, I think: we are not to play God and make pronouncements about the final destiny of individuals (we should be cautious in doing so positively or negatively IMO), certainly not on the mere basis of what they happen to be tempted by. We can say that certain things are sinful, and even that certain habitual sins (lifestyles; indicated e.g. by the Greek present/continual tense) can indicate any presumption an individual who forever refused to turn from them held to have been “justified” or “a Christian” will prove in the end of days to have been but a delusion:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you...” (note BTW the past tense "such were some of you"; contrast Bob's letter which would insert the present tense: "such are some of you").

bigjtink wrote:

If a person accepts Christ they have the word of God. They can read it just as I can. If the Holy Spirit convicts them fine. But I am not going to do his job.

In passing, I would say Jesus never asked anyone to “accept him.” He asked men to follow him, obey him, believe in him (i.e. including believing in the things he taught) and teach others among the nations/Gentiles to obey everything (“all”) he commanded in precisely the same manner: Matthew 28:19-20 "… make disciples of all the nations …teaching them to observe all that I commanded you…”

Tink may not think it is his job to reprove others (lucky Tink; his is the easier road to be sure), but I personally regard exhortation and reproof (which can and should be a loving act BTW) to be required of Christians (some of you may disagree with this point, which is fine; I’m expressing my own view here):

2 Timothy 4:2-3 “…be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires…”

Ezekiel 3:18-21 "When I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die'; and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. Yet if you have warned the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself. Again, when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I place an obstacle before him, he shall die; since you have not warned him, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. However, if you have warned the righteous man that the righteous should not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; and you have delivered yourself."

bigjtink wrote:

Can an alcoholic become a Christian? He gets saved and still he drinks? Can a womanizer become a Christian?

My own view, with a vast majority of the major strands of historical theology, is that they can: if they repent. If they will not repent, they will perish: Acts 26:20 “[I, Paul] …kept declaring …even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance.” Luke 24:46-47: "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and rise again from the dead the third day; and that repentance for forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem; Luke 13:3: “unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”

One does not “get saved” by mere mental assent to a proposition without repentance (I’m not suggesting this is Tink’s view -I don't know his view- but just for clarification). Repentance is often presented in the Greek present/continual tense in the NT, i.e. it is to a lifestyle of repentance rather than to one Grand Moment that all are called to (Rev 3:22). Repentance, of course, is not a “work”; repentance is presented as a gift in the NT (gift/grace are the same thing in Koine Greek): Romans 2:4 “Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?”; 2 Timothy 2:24-25: “And the Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth." Repentance is a gift, the grace of God, given to anyone who will not continually reject it and so become self-darkened (Jn 3:19-21; Rom 1:28). Repentance is grace. No repentance, no rational basis to have authentically received grace. Grace, if it is authentic, is not for a moment, but for a lifetime. That is why all major systems of historical theology traceable to the Reformation or earlier affirm lifelong sanctification (pursuit of holiness) characterizes those who will be found in the end of days to have authentically received eternally saving grace (Hebrews 12:14: "Pursue... holiness, without which no one will see the Lord). We must not forget that the NT makes it clear that many will verbally profess Jesus as their Lord who actually will be found in the end to be lost.

2 Peter 3:9 “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.”

I'll plan to post more specifically on homosexuality soon. Blessings and cheers to all... ;-)

Great to see you back, dear Sir!

Quote :

Roughly 40% of the NT is exhortation material: i.e. material (1) exhorting Christians to avoid or stop doing things that are wrong, or (2) to engage in doing things that are right. Exhortation, also called reproof, is a good thing –as long as we are reproving someone who is willing to listen:

Proverbs 9:8 “Do not reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you, reprove a wise man, and he will love you.”
Proverbs 10:17 “He is on the path of life who heeds instruction, But he who forsakes reproof goes astray.”
Proverbs 15:31-32 “He whose ear listens to the life-giving reproof will dwell among the wise. He who neglects discipline despises himself, but he who listens to reproof acquires understanding.

Reproof, something viewed positively in scripture, is something quite different from judgment, something viewed negatively in two passages of scripture.

This concept is constantly misunderstood by a lot of Christians, and has caused more strife than necessary. Humility plays a big factor and most Christians are NOT the humble creatures they wish themselves to be.

For example, a simple correction of facts by one to another, even when done gently and lovingly, is perceived as a personal attack. (there are some here who know exactly what I am talking about... **wink, wink; nudge, nudge; laugh a little**)

Walking in grace - "Grace, if it is authentic, is not for a moment, but for a lifetime. " - is the key to giving and receiving reproof. It gives you a real moment to see the heart of God at work like a loving parent, so we can be like Him, in the form of a loving sibling.

I actually agree with Sir H here. I think it is appropriate to "Speak The Truth In Love" However.......Often times people forget the "Love" part. Perhaps I just see this issue differently. I have a sister in law whom is gay. She knows I dont approve, we have discussed it. But she knows I love her dearly.
She has a cousin who has out right condemned her and he has 6 children by 4 different woman,,,ackkkk.... All the while claiming to be a Christian??? I love him too but sadly, he wont talk to me anymore because of my association with the "Sinner".
They will know us by our love,,,,Thats all Im trying to say here.

alot of words being used here , too many for me to read . I just hope people isnt trying to justify homos and lesbos. One could probably twist the scriptures around to make it ok, but I follow nature and it is against nature so its wrong.
You all might be saying the same thing, just too many words for me to read.

very nice post SirHemlock.

Quote :

Temptation is something different from sin...

of course it is! Jesus was tempted, if you recall. and when we confess, we don't say "i really *wanted* to [insert sin here]." it's only a sin if you *did*


In my opinion, acting upon homosexual tendencies is WRONG.
if someone looks at another man and "wants" him, it's wrong. but if you can overcome and change yourself then God WILL help you.

bigjtink wrote:

I actually agree with Sir H here. I think it is appropriate to "Speak The Truth In Love" However.......Often times people forget the "Love" part. Perhaps I just see this issue differently. I have a sister in law whom is gay. She knows I dont approve, we have discussed it. But she knows I love her dearly. She has a cousin who has out right condemned her and he has 6 children by 4 different woman,,,ackkkk.... All the while claiming to be a Christian??? I love him too but sadly, he wont talk to me anymore because of my association with the "Sinner".
They will know us by our love,,,,Thats all Im trying to say here.

Triple amen, Tink. Hatred of any kind has no power to display the beauty, superiority, and cruciality of a life oriented towards choosing love and doing no harm to others. Idolatry has no power to refute idolatry.

PRIMUM NON NOCERE: ABOVE ALL DO NO HARM (attributed to Hippocrates)

Paul claimed God’s guidelines for living in the final analysis ultimately reduce to nothing more than the request that we behave in a manner which does no harm to our neighbor (Rom 13:9-10). Basic secular medical, psychological, and other (e.g. legal/judicial) data concerning homosexuality strongly suggests this correlation of biblical prohibition to a “do no harm” principle is eminently reasonable in the case of homosexual behavior.

Whatever one’s position on the whole question of homosexual behavior, I don’t think any person with love for, and genuine feeling for other human beings can but be saddened and alarmed by the statistics (from Thomas E. Schmidt’s Straight and Narrow? Compassion and Clarity in the Homosexuality Debate (Downers Grove: IVP, 1995); this book is used as a text in sexual ethics in many theological seminaries today; Schmidt went to extraordinary lengths to use only material from secular medical and social science journals which is pretty much beyond controversy for his basic statistical data):

The most horrible –and shocking- statistics relate to life expectancy. Leaving aside those who die from AIDS, the life expectancy of a homosexual male is about 45, versus 70 years for men in general (45 vs. 79 yrs. for lesbian vs. heterosexual married women). If you include those who die from AIDS, which now infects 30% of homosexual men, the life expectancy of a homosexual male drops to 39 years.

Compulsive promiscuity: 75% of homosexual men have more than 100 partners per lifetime, over half of which are strangers. Only 8% of homosexual men and 7% of homosexual women EVER have a relationship which lasts over 3 years.

Homosexual men are six times more likely to attempt suicide than the general population (homosexual women are two times more likely).

40% of homosexual men have a history of major depression, compared with 3% of men in general. In a recent survey, 70% of psychiatrists maintain this is entirely unrelated to social stigmatization.

Correlation with drugs and alcohol: Homosexuals are 3X more likely to be problem drinkers. 47% have a history of alcohol abuse; 51% have a history of drug abuse. There is a direct correlation between number of partners and amount of drugs used. Among adolescent homosexuals, 68% of males and 56% of females currently use drugs.

Homosexual men are much more likely to become pedophiles. 33% of homosexuals admit to having had sex with minors as an adult. A majority of convicted pedophiles are same sex pedophiles.

It is a well-kept secret that homosexual activity, 80% of which is done by men, poses significant physical dangers, including eventual prostate damage, ulcers, rupture, and chronic incontinence and diarrhea. Sexually transmitted disease is rampant. 78% of homosexual men carry one or more sexually transmitted diseases WHOLLY APART FROM AIDS including many kinds of non-viral infections such as gonorrhea, syphilis, various other bacterial infections and parasites including flukes and amoebae. Also very common among homosexuals are viral infections like herpes and hepatitis B, which affects 65% of homosexual men! (both of these are incurable) as well as hepatitis A and anal warts, which afflict 40% of homosexual men. All this is not even including AIDS.

The very suggestion that Christians who are tempted to engage in homosexual behavior should practice abstinence is often vilified as cruel and intolerant. How much more cruel is it to involve oneself and especially other human beings in a lifestyle that has such a heavy cost? If you are a a Christian -or even if you merely consider yourself a truly loving person- who is tempted to engage in homosexual behavior, I would urge you to consider practicing abstinence. God requires no less of all single persons. Not only should you as a Christian -whatever your personal temptations might be- keep your body pure, but you should also avoid pornography and fantasizing; these things have the power to pull you back into a lifestyle that harms and may destroy the lives of human beings whom God loves. Counseling should be sought out.

One thing I cannot well tolerate is so-called Christian hatred towards homosexual persons. Especially by antinomian ‘Christians,’ like one guy I met who had one of the deepest hatreds for homosexuals I ever saw who *bragged* about his own sexual relationship with a girl he wasn’t married to! (the attitude is sadly similar to Tink's cousin and all too prevelant) Homosexuals are human beings just like any other for whom Christ died. Vulgar, pejorative epithets and unkind jokes should never pass the lips of a person calling themselves ‘Christian’ towards homosexuals. Hatred least of all! We, all of us, have been broken in many ways. Jesus came not to condemn the world, but to save/heal (same word in the Greek). In our brokenness, we, all of us, also break others. Still, the danger to children is alarming to me. Any behavior even half this destructive to other human beings well-qualifies for being viewed theologically as “sin,” which above all is about failure to truly care for those whom we claim to “love” (Rom 13:9). All of us break others, but all are called to exert all our powers to minimize the breakage.

SOME CONCLUDING REMARKS ON BOB BEEMAN’S ‘OPEN LETTER’

Pastorally, Bob’s position leaves much to be desired IMO. Bob ends his "letter” saying “Is there a point where we stop judging and start loving? WWJD?” Is there a point when we will stop calling relativistic acceptance of anything and everything, prohibited by scripture or not, “love” and start discerning? Is Bob’s stance towards Christians who are tempted homosexually loving? Is a Christian’s “sexual preference” a sufficient basis for choice of behavior even if it might harm one’s partner (almost always many partners in the case of homosexuals). Is such a suggestion, or even concession, loving counsel? Would not such counsel potentially share responsibility for whatever harm might result from it? If such a consideration as “sexual preference” is a sufficient basis for Christian behavioral choices, what about sexual preference for pedophilia or a neighbor’s wife? Is perpetuating the myth that there is little or no difference in homosexual vs. heterosexual preference save the sexual object of one’s preference loving counsel or sound medical advice even on secular grounds? To cease judgment is one thing; to cease discernment is quite another. Bob’s open letter IMHO is a sad instance of the latter.

Bob seems to concede to our Christian friends who experience homosexual temptation that a Christian with homosexual desires cannot abstain from homosexual behavior. If this is so at the very least it gives lie to the scripture quoted in full at the beginning of my previous post (1 Cor 10:13-15). Bob shows no evidence of making even the slightest effort to come to grips with the real life and death issues faced by his flock who might chose homosexuality -and by their partners. Accommodations of sin are never loving in the final analysis, as sin is itself unloving and harmful, and true love neither does nor accommodates harm to a neighbor.

Romans 13:10 "Love does no wrong to a neighbor; love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.”

PeacethroughX wrote:

Great to see you back, dear Sir!

Thank you dear Peace ;-)
It always feels like family is here to me...

TInk and Hemlock - I TOTALLY agree with you about the "wrongness" of slamming homosexuals while being completely immoral in the hetrosexual sense...I tried to make that clear in my posting...I must not have done a very good job at doing that..My apologies!!

Hemlock - Those were interesting yet sad facts on the life expectations of homosexuals.

Yes, I will speak out against homosexuality, but I do try to do speak the truth respectfully and "in love". Believe me, I am one of the "good guys" and I have been slammed by those who take a ruder, more confrotnational, and more hateful approach to the topic of homosexuality,and that always HURTS!!

I have enjoyed the discussion on this topic! This is my last post on this topic!

On to something different!

Son_of_Issachar wrote:

Flame Me...Ban Me...Whatever!!

"Gay Christian" is an oxymoron!!

I do not hate the homosexual, but I do not owe them an apology! I owe them the truth of urging them to repent and flee from the wrath to come {actually it is almost here} because of their sin!

Has anyone seen the youtube video where gays attacked an elderly woman protesting the Propositon Whatever # {Banning Gay marriages}? The elderly woman was holding a cross.. The gay protestors knocked it out of hands and then begin to stomp/trample the cross!!

Who's hating who now???

Scripture does not allow one to be gay AND Christian...Are you listening Clay Aikens???

Yes....A hetrosexually promiscous person is just as wrong as the homosexual person, but I don't see immoral persons attacking {or shouting down} others like the homosexuals do..

I am SICK and TIRED in this country being accused of being hateful because you call sin "sin" and urge people to repent...I bet John the Baptist would not be on Oprah!!

Agreed!!!
I for years I thought and preached that there could be peace between Homosexuals and Christians if we respected each other and focused on what we had in common in issues not on what divides us. I was WRONG!!
A Couple of years ago we had a local Pastor of a Gay Church move into my community. Soon afterwards the local newspaper declared that this was an area that was becoming a Homosexual Haven. I took issue with that label and declared that this was a Neighborhood of diversity and respect for all. Although as a elected long time community leader I had never raised my hand to any member of that community in March of 09 I and my family were attacked .
March of 09
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/east.ssf?/base/community/1239178593155630.xml&coll=2
April of 09
http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/east.ssf?/base/community/1239783324156670.xml&coll=2
September of 09

Quote :

Eastlake ARTS DISTRICT
site message to it's director and his response.


So,
Amy and I are looking to rent. Tell me about your neighborhood. Exactly where
is the art district and gayborhood located within Eastlake? I also need to know
about safety issues and how quickly is the area turning.


and the response





I would have to say that the upper
70... Read More’s
and 80’ street south area of South Eastlake is the place to look for what you
seem to be searching for. In that area of East Lake you will find younger urban
couples; quality house re-builds and healthy “GLBT” zone. All of the Greater
East Lake area seems to be salt and peppering with GLBT families but the South
Eastlake area is the best opportunity right now to find a comfortable home to
call your own. For renting I would check with Margaret Crawford at this site: http://www.rollinscrawford.com/
The
Rollins-Crawfords live in the area and have great rental properties that are
very cute at very reasonable prices. East Lake has already been coined the GLBT
Ghetto or Village for Birmingham because of the affordable rentals and home
prices and that the other gay friendly communities here on the East Side. We
have already seen a dynamic change in the interest to relocate into the Greater
East Lake area.
We are a
diverse community that welcomes our GLBT families. Each artist, GLBT, or
bohemian household that migrates into our Arts District brings us closer to
achieving a truly unique living experience for us all.


September 30 at 9:13pm

I pulled up the area that here is stated to be the "health" GLBT ( that stands for Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender BTW ) zone and found that it contained 11 registered convicted sex offenders within a half mile radius. If that is a "healthy" and "safe" gay friendly zone than what in the world would an unhealthy or unsafe one be?? maybe an area with too many Christians?
November 09
http://blog.al.com/birmingham-elections/2009/10/birmingham_city_council_carol.html#_login
In Nov that 2 term city Council person got TROUNCED by our candidate with 63% of the vote at the polls.
Make no mistake that Homosexuality is a sin and the spirit of Homosexuality is a demonic one. That Spirit hates the things of God and those who serve Him and like it's father will kill us if it can.
Our fight however is not with those who are captured by this Spirit but with the Spirit itself. Know this we MUST fight Homosexuality as the Church or be destroyed!!
One of the traits of Sodom was the hatred towards those who served God.
In Genesis 19 when the two Angels came to visit Lot and investigate the outcry against the City what happened? The men of Sodom surrounded the house confronted Lot and demanded that the visitors come out so they could have sexual relations with them!! Nothing has changed with that Spirit it hated God and anyone who served Him then and still does today!!
We MUST not embrace the demonic as normal and moral. The Christian Church MUST resist Homosexuality!
The question is how?? Look to Genesis 18 as Abraham pleads and interceded for Sodom. We MUST begin to do the same for our Cities and those who have been captured by this Spirit.
What we can NOT do is curse them and push them farther away from the gospel and from Christ. Jesus NEVER condemned those who were trapped in Sin but instead showed compassion brought light, love and deliverance. He only condemned the religious Pharisees who stood in the way of the sinners being reconciled and coming to know God.
The Bible commands us to go to the highways and hedges compelling all to come into a knowledge of Christ. We must preach the Gospel (which means Good News) not condemnation and curses.
If the gospel means good news then how in the world can we justify standing on a street corner screaming how God hates "fags" and wants to destroy them? We can't!!
We must reach out with love and compassion to those trapped in Sin not ignoring the Sin nor justifying the Sin but showing compassion by shining the light and loving the Sinner. it is the only way to reach anyone.
No one wants to hear that God hates them and wants to throw them in Hell they already know they are seperated from God.
What they DO need to know is that there is forgivness and in SPITE of the Sin God loves them and wants to reconcile them to Him through a relationship with Christ.

[quote="Ascension"]

Son_of_Issachar wrote:

Flame Me...Ban Me...Whatever!!

"Gay Christian" is an oxymoron!!

finally something i can agree with , many words and psuedo intelectual wordings dont hide this fact.

Actually; "Gay Christian" is completely orthodox....more so than "Sullen Christian!"

Gay christian , lets just take it a bit further to satanic christian its all the same to me .....lets see how close to the fence we can go gimme a break .

You missed it, I was being facetious, imagine that?!

There was a time being "gay" meant cheerful, it had nothing to do w/homosexuality. That word has been lost to us, let us not lose the rainbow as well!

Sin is sin and ALL come short of the Glory of God and that applies to EVERYONE

What would Jesus Do?

I think he would show unconditional love

Quote :

take it a bit further to satanic christian

Thats like saying Jewish Nazi

which to me is like saying gay christian.